Everyone has a story—but too many leaders assume theirs isn’t worth telling. In this Hot Topic, David Lykken sits down with Matt Harms, founder of Pen for Hire NYC, to explore why writing a book can be one of the most powerful ways to share your experience, establish yourself as a thought leader, and leave a lasting legacy. Matt breaks down how to uncover the stories you may not realize you have, how ghostwriting can help turn those experiences into a compelling book, and where AI can—and cannot—fit into the creative process. From finding your “why” and developing an outline to choosing between traditional and self-publishing, this conversation offers a practical starting point for anyone who has ever thought, “I don’t have enough to write a book.” As Matt reminds us, every topic may have been written about before—but your story hasn’t.
[David] Listeners, there’s many ways for you to make a statement, but there’s nothing better to make yourself look like an authority than for you to write a book. Today’s guest, Matt Harms, who’s the founder of Pen for Hire, NYC. He lives in New York City, NYC. And he is someone that I personally have retained to write my book. I want to welcome to the microphone my good friend Matthew, or we know him as Matt Harms. Matt, good to have you here all the way from New York City.
[Matt] David, thank you so much for taking the time to get me on your show. I really appreciate it.
[David] Well, there’s so much I want to talk about and there’s nobody more qualified to talk about this because of your accomplishments as a author for others. And again, Pen for Hire, you do a great job. And so, you know, I wanna get started with where I initially launched the podcast with is why storytelling is so important. What would you what would be the answer your answer to that question?
[Matt] I I get asked this question a lot, David, and storytelling is as old as humanity, right? People have been cave paintings, hieroglyphics, campfires, urban legend. it all boils down to though not just giving information, but connecting with the person that you’re giving that information to. And storytelling is one of the most relatable ways to do that.
[David] Yeah, it’s so true. Yeah. And I think it’s really it does hearken back to the earliest writers were on cave walls. And so and we still have that material and their artifacts and their stories still can’t figure them all out, but we at least have
[Matt] And you and you know what, anyone that says writing a book is hard, it’s a lot easier with a computer than it was chiseling it into a tablet.
[David] Chiseling into a tablet, that’s so true. Or putting it on a cave wall. it it’s really good. And I love how you write. You’ve written for some of my friends, Marc Helm, who’s a one I’m one of my podcast hosts, along with me. And you’ve written how many books for him now?
[Matt] Mark has become a prolific author in the last four years, ever since you introduced us to him. So one, thank you for introducing us to Marc. He’s done three books on business leadership. He has done a book on historical lesson, historical stories and the lessons we can learn from them in life. He’s done a book on his time in Vietnam, he’s done which came out recently. we’re finishing his autobiography. And he has six children’s books into his twelve children’s book series.
[David] I love that. He is he is prolific and it is becoming a passion of his. He says, one of the things I love about for Marc, he says, this has given me a new reason to stay alive. I’m now able to do and create a legacy. And I think that a lot of it’s legacy creating, but it’s also you were gonna say something, you know, legacy creating is important.
[Matt] Legacy creating is important, legacy creating for the right reason is even more important. and as this process started, I think Marc shifted from seeing just about business and authority to what can I leave behind for my family? You know, his brother was ill. I mean, he passed recently. And just the thought of you know his family, his grandkids maybe not getting the full breadth of what he experienced in his life, which as you know, Mark’s Marc is a very interesting man. so there
[David] He has quite a bad
[Matt] Was almost no way to compartmentalize it all in one book. We had it, we had to attack it from several angles.
[David] Yeah, well, it’s really good. But I mean, then there’s also the reason you should do it is because they become a demonstrated expert in your field. In other words, a thought leader. Now, a lot of loan officers say, why do I need a book? Well, why not write a book about your stories of what you’re the successes? You’ve helped people in getting into homes. And I think that will build hope for people. So let’s talk about why thought leaders should have a book. What’s your reason for that?
[Matt] We live in an age where I’ll use loan officers since you brought it up. If someone’s choosing between loan officers, everyone’s got a website, everyone’s got a Google review page, everyone has a Zillow review page. Right? So if I’m comparing someone with a thousand five-star reviews and someone with 999 five-star reviews, well, what makes me pick one over the other? I don’t know them from a hole in the wall, but if someone has a book. And I can learn a little bit more about who they are as a person, how they work with their clients, which shines through when they’ve taken the time to put it down in writing. It’s not just what other people are saying. That to me stands out of this person really takes what they do seriously because writing a book’s not easy.
[David] Yeah. And they also established themselves. They said, I’m really serious about the profession, so much so that I really want to share with you why this is a true profession and not just a source of income for me. So I think I think it’s really, really good. What do you tell people who don’t think that they have a story or anything valuable to share? You know, I’m really interested in you drilling into this because I we’ve you know the challenge I had on this for myself. And give some examples of books that come from best sellers that are written by best sellers by someone who thought they did have a story.
[Matt] So to be clear, I generally don’t judge success by bestseller category. people who come to us, you know, I I’m not the guy. There’s so many other components, marketing, advertise that happen post-production that someone needs to do to achieve that. Our clients, and the way we feel their success is by how they use that book after it’s done as a business tool. One story that comes to my mind was actually what one of my favorite clients. she wound up doing two books with us, but she was a school safety officer. She also had she was a doc had her doctorate degree. School safety officer didn’t know if anyone wanted to read about like school safety and the things that go on with students and how they get into trouble. And I’m not gonna get into all the details of the book, but we worked with her to figure out why was she writing the book? Who was her intended audience? It was parents and other educators, how to build a partnership with these kids for a better school environment. the book did so well that not only did she come back to write her second book, she’s gotten universities that have picked up her curriculum. She’s now speaking on national stages. She was nominated the president of a major school. Know the exact term for it, but a national school organization that works with these types of issues, all because she became the authority on the topic by writing the first book.
[David] Yeah, I mean you sit and think about there’s so many great stories out there that of people that have written compelling stories that have made a difference in the lives of of others. And I think the biggest lie that we argue our self-talk is I don’t have anything that you say. No, there’s all every book that needs to be written has already been written. Yeah, but your story, listener, has not been written. And I am really passionate about this because I’m seeing what a difference it has made in other people. So, how does someone start the journey of writing a book?
[Matt] If you’re gonna start the journey on your own, which I love, really it’s it don’t think about it from, my goodness, how do I write a book? Sit down and write a story. Sit down and write something that happened in your life today, yesterday, when you were four years old. Something that was meaningful. It doesn’t matter what it is, right? Maybe it was a great experience you had on vacation as a child. Maybe it was the wedding you just attended last week for a friend you never thought would get married and the impact it had on your life. It doesn’t matter. Write it because our brains are like this dam. And the longer we hold in memories and stories, and it just clogs up our brain space. Once you start taking it out and putting it on paper, you’re freeing up more room and you’ve unclogged the dam. The next time you sit down to write, stories are gonna come to you. After a week or so of doing that, you’re gonna realize, holy shoot, I do have a lot to say.
[David] Yeah, yeah, I think there that’s a lot. This gets into you know, a lot of people go, My books are gonna be all of maybe five pages long because they just don’t think they’re it’s they don’t have anything to share. You mean I think you said it well when you start unplugging the dam and you start letting the ideas flow, they go, yeah, I forgot about this story. That’s right. I remember helped this person get into a home. And if you’re a branch manager or if you’re a president of a company, I mean if you’re writing your book, the most important thing Matt said is if you’re writing the book for the right why. Why are you doing it? And if you’re doing it to help others through an experience, then you’re gonna have a greater success because it’s not about you. I the eagle books kind of bore me to tears. I mean, you could just read it and it’s but that’s not what you’re recommending here.
[Matt] No, no. And especially, as you said before, I’m not gonna lie to anyone, every topic has been written about. There is nothing new under the sun. Even if you read fiction novels, every story follows the hero’s journey. The the the framework is the same. And if you want to write an ego book and compete with Simon Gladwell, Malcolm Gladwell, the Simon Sinec the world, you’re gonna lose. What you have that they don’t have is a unique story that more likely people can relate to because you’re not. Simon Sinek or Malcolm Gladwell. You’re you’re more at the level of your audience. When I need to learn something new, I don’t, I’m not gonna take it from someone who is wildly successful and I can’t relate to. I’m gonna look at a ghostwriter, if you if I need ghostwriting advice, who is doing slightly better than I am and and has helped clients or done the things that I’m looking to do and I can relate to. That’s why some books are, you know, someone can read 99 diet books and never lose a pound and they pick up the one.
[David] That one book because
[Matt] That they resonate the author says something that resonates with them. It’s just that that’s what clicks for them. So it doesn’t have to be the biggest authority. It’s your story that can make the difference in someone’s life.
[David] Right. And that is really such a good part of it. And let’s so how long should a book be? I mean, is it does it’m more than five pages, ten pages, but it doesn’t have to be this volume either. Not to say that I can’t. Marc some of Marc’s books turned out to be three hundred some pages. I mean, but s sometimes the shorter books, I’m thinking of Patrick Lencioni’s books right now, which are written in a fable model more are are been very, very successful. So what’s your recommendation for someone writing a book?
[Matt] My standard recommendation is 175 to 225 pages. That’s about 40 to 50,000 words. Sounds daunting. It’s really not once you start writing, but you make a great point. Depending how you the style you adopt, if you do a parable, if you do a fable, John David Mann with the go-giver, Patrick Lencioni with the five dysfunctions of a team. You know, they got away with 130 pages. it’s not so much. It’s not the quantity, it’s the quality.
[David] Yes. that’s so good. And I got the go giver. I’ve got that book and I’ve got that author. In fact, you introduced me to him. I had them on my podcast, and it’s a great book. We should put a link to that in this podcast. So let’s talk about ghostwriting. You brought that up. Is that cheating? I’ll I’ll tell you right now, I should almost make that a statement. Is ghostwriting is not cheating because I am saying I’m telling you from my perspective, but explain why it isn’t cheating.
[Matt] Is it cheating to get a trainer when you wanna get in shape? You’re hiring a professional who has done what you’re looking to do for account. Now, granted, in in that analogy, the trainer can’t work out for you, but I mean you’re paying them to make sure you work out. not everyone can write. Everyone has a talent for a reason. I can’t fix it, I’m waiting for a plumber this afternoon because I’ve got a clogged kitchen sink. I’m not gonna try to fix it myself because I’m gonna destroy the house. If you can’t write, there’s nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t mean your story’s any less valid. You’re not if you’re going to a ghostwriter and saying, Write me a book and make up everything in it, well that’s just that’s just fake. That’s cheating. and I don’t know any ghostwriter with any ethics that would do that.
[David] Yeah, but yeah, but this brings in the topic of AI because AI can do a lot of writing, I mean, how do you see AI being a tool that enhances versus a tool that creates something that is just, like you said, fake and fraudulent almost?
[Matt] All right, so I love AI. I use AI a lot. Not to generate content, to generate ideas and structure. So if I need to write a book, I’ll use my last book, for example, was on real estate, because that’s one of my side passions. I I know real estate really well, but as you sit there to say, what’s everything that needs to go into this book? I brainstorm bullet points, you know, you have to cover this topic. If we’re talking about lending, you gotta cover the different types of loans, the different types of underwrite. But you know, as an expert, you tend to miss things because you’re so close to the subject matter. I have no problem going to Claude or chat and saying, hey, I’m writing a book on real estate. What are the 20 things that must be included in a good real estate book? And then go through the list and say, my God, how’d I forget that one? But I don’t turn around and say, Okay, thank you for the list, now write it for me. No.
[David] No, no, that’s where it goes, that can go south. First of all, you don’t know where it’s getting its information and if it’s accuracy, number one. Number two, it’s just you could tell something that’s been written by AI. It’s getting more and more we’re getting smarter and figuring that out. And I think this is part where it comes from your soul, when it comes to your heart, you just know when you’re getting something that comes deep from someone’s soul, it just has a different flavor and feeling to it.
[Matt] Yes. And the one thing AI can’t do, or at least I don’t think it’ll ever be able to do, is tell your stories because it doesn’t know your stories. So I can’t ask AI to write about that, you know, traumatic client encounter I had 10 years ago that almost made me quit my business because it doesn’t know it. That has to come from me. Can it remind me that hey people might want to hear about some of the things that were not successful in your business? Yeah, it can give me those ideas, but I still have to do the writing.
[David] Right. That’s really good. So it’s getting started. Let’s get to the getting started part. I made the decision to start with you. You had been referred to me, like I have now referred you out to many, many of my clients who are in the process of writing the books. Mark is probably the most prolific of those people, individuals. And Marc’s not a client, he’s just a good friend and a part of my podcast, my regular Monday prop podcast. so when someone wants to get started. I want to share my side of the story, Matt, and then you could tell me how you helped it through. I had a concept of what I thought I wanted to write about. I had some general ideas. But it was really you that said, Dave, let’s let’s go through those things. And you interviewed me and you drew out of me an outline. You really said to me, that’d be good. I mean, I think we should organize it this way. And this goes into the structure where you really were playing the AI agent. But You here’s the difference between an AI agent helping you work on that and having someone like Matt. AI agents do not have the experience that Matt has. They say, well, they pull on the experience of all these other writers and they’re and they’ve got a lot of knowledge. Yes, they do, but it is really comes down to creating something that is going to be again connect with the listener. So, Matt, you helped me immensely about creating the structure, the outline. Once you have the outline done. Then we’re starting to go to work on the chapters. And no listeners, I haven’t published my book because it turns out that’s my second book. I’m now going to start working on it after I get past getting married. I’m going to work on my first book. Then the second book will write. So it’s not, it’s sometimes once you start writing, you go, there’s books in me. And then you write what you have, and then you realize, this is actually my second or third book. I need to create the first two or the first one that leads into this story, and that’s what you helped me with. So help someone who calls you, walk them through the process, and I explain what I what you did with me, but what are the various ways that you work with people in helping them write their first book?
[Matt] I mean, every engagement starts with a free 30-minute consultation where we go through the what I like to consider the key pillars of the book. Why do you want to write a book? What’s your goal from writing the book? Once this book is in the world, how will you determine if you were successful in the endeavor? Short of just having the book, right? Did it get you the speaking engagements? Did it get you into the university? did it get you the new client who chose you over your competition because you had the book? some of the other questions that we dive into are: what’s your storytelling style? Right? Is this gonna be a straight business like here’s a here’s the process driven book? Is it gonna be a parable? Is it gonna be a fable? Is it gonna be more of a memoir with with your life experiences pointed out? And all of that, you’d be amazed how much I mean, you went through the process, comes out in the first 30 minutes. We get a rough outline, a rough idea of these are the things that we must speak about. And then we go from there.
[David] Yeah, there you go from there. And I love the fact that you give this away for free for the first 30 minutes. And then after that, you enter the engagement. And that engagement involves an agreement. and then how does it work from there?
[Matt] So we offer multiple levels of engagement because there are some people who after that 30 minutes, they’re decent writers, maybe they have a lot of content already, and they don’t need me to write it for them. So we’ll enter into a coaching relationship where they do the writing. I hold them accountable. This is more of that fitness trainer. I’m making sure they’re getting their writing done. I’m reading it. I’m giving them pointers, making sure that everything stays on track. the opposite end of that spectrum is the full-blown ghostwriting where we meet every week for an hour. I play, I do it’s more of interviewing than it is actually writing because I’m just asking you the questions and I go in with an agenda. However, it’s not set in stone because if I ask you a question and the answer you give me sends me down a rabbit hole that wasn’t on my list, we’re gonna explore it. And that’s the difference between working with an actual human who’s done this and kind of knows what’s valuable, whereas the person being interviewed may be like, well, that’s not important. And I’m like, no, that actually may be very important. Like, tell me more.
[David] Yeah. I love I listened to an interview of JD Vance recently on the writing of his last book. And he’s a prolific writer and he’s done a lot of that, gone to school and written a lot of thesis and all that Vice president. I don’t know how he had the time to do this, but he literally wrote the second book. But his wife is a good editor, went through it, ripped it apart, and then it went to another editor that even went to there was whole chapters that he had to scrap and he had to rewrite because what he had in his mind, it didn’t flow with the continuity and it their input made the book so valuable. So I think that’s really good. So you work with someone who will you’ll literally sit down like I think you did with Mark the first time and you recorded what he was saying. And then you basically wrote the book. He approved the content, tweaked it, and you guys got the first. Then that l unblocked the dam use you said, and then you’ve gone into a consultative role on some aspects of it as well. So then let’s get past so now you have the the first draft created. What’s the next step on getting the work published?
[Matt] That is something we always cover early on. So there’s no mystery after the book’s written of like what happens next. everyone know everyone knows of tr you know the Simon and Schusters, the traditional publishing. Everyone has this dream of I’d love to have their name on my book. it’s that that is a very difficult road to go unless you are someone with an extremely recognizable brand book publishing’s not what it used to be. So we can write you the query letter. We can do the business proposal package. Like we have the ability to help you try to go that road. However, the road most people go, like Marc has gone, is just to self-publish it. In which case we have a team of freelancers at Pen for Hire. and they’re actually, I can’t even say freelancers anymore. They pretty much do all my work. you know, editors with far better grasps of the English language than I have. I’m a great storyteller. I don’t pretend to be a great grammar and speller, I have people who are much better at that than me. They do the editing, as you just mentioned. They tear it apart. they come back and say, why don’t we do this? And then once the client approves all of those changes, we get the cover design done for them, we get we get their layout done, and we help them upload it to the platform of their choice. Or if they really want more recognition, we’ll hand them over to some of our partners over at Rethink Books, Amplify, Forbes, because we do a lot of work with all three of those publishers. And then they can explore those roads. But all of our clients know up front there are multiple paths to publication. The choice is theirs.
[David] Yeah. And that’s that’s really good. There’s a lot of flexibility. You don’t say it’s my way or the highway, you sit and work with the client.
[Matt] Absolutely. I don’t to be honest, I don’t enjoy all of that other stuff I just mentioned. That’s the if the client needs it, we’ll get it done for you. Cause I want you to have that finished product. But my passion, as you can tell, lies in the creation of the book.
[David] Yes, it is so true. You love the story. you just recently wrote a screenplay. So not only as a book, but there you wrote a screenplay for one of my dear friends who had a harrowing experience escaping Africa when it went through some of the most horrific amount of evil turnover. I mean the gangs that were in there. She escaped and now she and her family, her mom. I mean you wrote the book. I mean you wrote the screenplay. So there’s some books that can literally become they’re so compelling that they can be a screenplay. And in that case, you wrote the screenplay first, and then the book is coming out of that screenplay. It’s now getting picked up by Angel Studios and a couple other studios, hopefully, is what the a context I have for there. So you don’t know where this book journey will take you, listener. You just don’t know. If you got a compelling story, someone’s gonna pick up on that and go, like, man, I think there’s even a movie here. So not saying that will always happen. Probably pretty rare that it happens, but it does happen.
[Matt] It does. And I have to share, I mean, Cynthia’s feedback through the pro after like the second or third session, she could not believe how many things she had repressed. Because as you mentioned, it was a horrific nine-year period of civil war after civil war. and possibly being the only women in the country who escaped untouched.
[David] Not being taxed. Yeah.
[Matt] And she felt like an entire weight had been lifted for living with this story for the last twenty years without ever telling anyone about it.
[David] Yeah. I I mean she was just became a dear dear friend and and when I heard her story, that’s when I put her in touch with you and I love that. So the point of that part of this interview is just to make you don’t know where this book could go, listeners. You don’t you gotta you’re I’m I’m I’m thinking of some great examples of people like the the one book, The Shack by William Young. That sold over 10 million copies, became the number one New York bestseller. List, if you haven’t seen the movie The Shack, or read the book, I mean it’s it became a sensation. another one was Richard Paul Evans, The Christmas Box. That was another one that was there. The Glass Castle. There’s I mean Angela’s Ashes. There’s so many books. There’s another one by James Clear that became It’s over 30 million copies sold in 60 languages. So you just don’t know where this thing’s going to take off and what this can do to transform your career. But if it’s nothing more than just touching one life that changes one life, it was worth writing the book.
[Matt] Absolutely. And honestly, if you don’t feel that, if you feel changing one life is not worth writing a book, then you’re probably right. and maybe not the type of person I want to work with, because we I think you and I have gotten to this point over the years where we all have kind of this inherent duty to help make the world a better place. And if we can use our stories, our talents, things that don’t cost us anything to help someone else, why wouldn’t you want to?
[David] Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think there’s so many wonderful things about this. Thinking more and more people. Ever I’ve got all my clients now. I’m gonna be saying I go listen to this podcast and go write a book. I mean, get Matt to write a book. If he says how you run a company, how you manage a company, what inspired you to own a company. That could open up what be for other people to start company. If you’re a loan officer and you’ve had some great success stories or you’re starting out, what you how you’re gonna go about it. There’s so much you could do. So it doesn’t matter where you’re at in the journey, at what level in the organization you are. You can do something about it if you’re an operations manager, how you’ve overcome some of the challenges. It’s it will set you apart as a leader in the field. It just by virtue of say, have you read my book?
[Matt] Absolutely. And you hit on some of the key things, vulnerability. Not everyone wants to he read an entire book of I did this and it worked. I did this and it worked. Share those moments where this did not work and here’s what I learned from it and here’s what I took forward and what I’m doing now. Because that’s what people really relate to is overcoming adversity. If all you’ve done is succeed and there was never anything bad that happened, no one cares.
[David] Yeah, it’s it’s it’s true. And it’s not fictional. I mean, you write fictional books, you help people write fictional books. I know that if you have a great story, yes, get a hold of Matt and he’ll help you write that book. But however, your life is not fictional. It’s a real life story, but it follows the same thing, and you just raised that up. Overcoming adversity. What did you do to overcome adversity? That’s Cynthia Stewart’s story. And I can’t wait to get that out. Matt, thank you so much for coming on. I’m I really hope this interview and our time together this morning will become an inspiration and plant a seed for many good books that would not have otherwise existed because of this interview and it’s starting this relationship. So look what happened with Marc Helm and what it launched for him. Pretty exciting.
[Matt] Absolutely. And you know, anyone, anyone listening, just start writing, right? Don’t feel like, my goodness, I’ve got to hire or I’ve got to get. Don’t look at it as books. Just tell a story. Start with a story. See where it takes you.
[David] Yeah. So true. So true. Matt, thank you so much for being here. How could people reach you?
[Matt] Best way to reach me, head over to my website, penforhire nyc.com. you can email me, Matt@penforhirenyc.com. also on LinkedIn, Matthew Harms. Pen for Hire is on LinkedIn, but the website and email are usually the two best ways to get me.
[David] Probably the best way do it. Listeners, take up him up on this. He will give you 30 minutes to discuss your idea and your concept. Do some journaling on it. Get some ideas and constructs. So when you contact him, it’s a real substance of 30 minutes that he Matt is investing into. Who knows where this goes? Matt, thanks so much for being here. Appreciate you.
[Matt] David, always a pleasure, brother. Thank you.
[David] Blessings.
[Matt] Blessings.
Important Links:
Bill Dallas is Chairman of Dallas Capital, a strategic advisory firm shaped by more than four decades of building, scaling, acquiring, and transforming companies across mortgage lending, fulfillment, and fintech. Known for stepping into complex situations and driving meaningful change, Bill has founded, led, and advised numerous industry-defining organizations.
Over his career, Bill has been responsible for the leadership and growth of companies including First Franklin, Heritage Bank of Commerce, Ownit Mortgage Solutions, InterThinx, MindBox, Skyline Home Loans, Cloudvirga, and Finance of America Mortgage. He brings this depth of experience to CEOs, boards, and leadership teams, helping them anticipate what’s next and execute with clarity and confidence.
Bill earned a Bachelor of Arts degree, magna cum laude, from Bowling Green State University and a Juris Doctor from Santa Clara University School of Law. He has been recognized as one of Bowling Green’s Top 100 Graduates, founded the university’s Center for Entrepreneurial Leadership, and was inducted into its Business Hall of Fame.
Beyond his professional work, Bill founded Oaks Christian School and serves as a board member and Chairman Emeritus of the Board of Trustees. He lives in Las Vegas with his wife, Bev, and together they have five children and four grandchildren.